They
entered the room looking like a pair of mismatched socks. Dressed in jeans and a
T-shirt, he was the mild-mannered director of maverick indies like Drugstore
Cowboy and My Own Private Idaho. The namesake of Annie Hall,
she was still in a mold of her own, wrapped in a long, thin coat with a hat and
black leather gloves. Yet when they sat down to begin talking about their new
picture Elephant, which Gus Van Sant directed and Diane Keaton executive
produced, they opened up with the chemistry of an old married couple.
The first thing to wonder, of course, was how they came together to collaborate
on their film, which won the Palme d’Or at Cannes last May?
“It’s an intimate story,” offered Diane, with a hint of duplicity.
Gus replied, “I thought, unless there was something I missed, which there
might’ve been, that we were just having dinner at our agent's house.”
“That’s what he thinks.”
The laughter that followed set the tone. Elephant chronicles, for the
most part, the last 15 minutes at a high school before two students arrive to
enact a Columbine-style massacre. The story is told with a distanced approach.
Motivations are sparse. The viewer is merely an observer.
As the laughter subsided, Gus continued, “I was looking for help in making…”
“I’m the person you’re always looking for when you need help.”
“We’d never met, I don’t think.”
“No.”
More laughter. But of course, the subject at hand had to give way and subdue the
genial beginnings. Gus initially had the idea to make a film about Columbine,
which Diane then suggested they take to HBO. Their dinner party fortuitously
occurred only three weeks after that incident.
Diane explained, “Everyone was devastated by that. Everyone was concerned. There
was a time when I was just flailing about, thinking about gun control, of
course. As one simple solution.” She then clarified, “But that’s all the more
reason I love Gus’ movie: the fact that it really begs for questions as opposed
to answers. I think that we need that. It’s a starting point for people to
really have discussions about what they feel about violence in schools. Guns.
How we deal with our depression. It just brings up so much.”
Speaking about his own experiences, Gus revealed, “I think if I had been
surrounded by bullies and pushed around, I think that would’ve sent me over the
edge. I think that would’ve really upset me. I don’t remember there being
bullies that were bigger than – I wasn’t big in size – but I think I was part of
the group of bullies. Yet we weren’t really bully-bullies, we were kind of nerds
– if you can also have that. Later in life I had been mugged. That’s sort of the
closest I came. But through high school and junior high school there really
wasn’t that type of thing. We had a clique – our own clique – which probably
resembled the kids that were bullied.”
This raised an issue for Diane, who jumped in, “Can I say something too? I just
have to interject about Gus, cause I think it’s really important to understand
Gus has one amazing quality. And that is a quality that is rare. Very rare. And
that is he is a very good listener. And I think this has probably been with Gus
all his life. It encourages people to reveal things about themselves to him.
They trust him. I think that that can’t be overestimated or congratulated more,
because to me, the problem is that most people just want to spit things out.
There’s no place for them to find somebody who will actually listen. I think
that encouraged a certain kind of honor as an artist – he just followed this
path in a way that most people wouldn’t if they hadn’t been listeners. Enough
can’t be said about that, in my opinion.”
“As with other films that I’ve made, I don’t know about listening, but
observing. The actor sort of can do no wrong. Whatever they do,” countered Gus.
Diane was emphatic. “Do you know how unusual that is? As an actor? I know a lot
about this. And it’s rare. I can’t stress – usually directors want something.
They want it very specific. They just kill your impulses. So to be party to
somebody who’s just encouraging them to reveal themselves – whatever you’re
giving me is something – it lends a certain kind of trust. And that trust makes
them feel confident. Gus does it. I think Altman does it. I think Woody does it
a bit. I think that’s really a wonderful directorial trait.”
Of course, certain things in Elephant required a greater degree of
coercion. For instance, one controversial scene between the killers fell
squarely on hard green. Just before embarking on their killing spree the two
boys enter a shower together, and after one of them remarks that he’s never
kissed anybody before, they step into an embrace.
“When I was casting Eric and Alex, I thought they were right to play the rolls
of the two boys who attack the school,” began Gus. “But I knew that I wanted
this kiss. And I knew they weren’t going to like it.”
Diane burst out laughing. Gus continued, “So I brought ‘em to the location to
talk about the movie – but also to sell ‘em on the kiss. I got around to saying
like, There’s just one thing, which is there’s a scene in the bathroom. As soon
as they got to the bathroom Alex was saying, I knew it! This was too good to be
true! But Eric’s response was, Do we get paid more? So I said, Yeah, of course.
I just didn’t want ‘em to drop out. It was not their idea – it was me imposing
that idea on the story.”
For various reasons, however, once they were on the set, “It looked like it
wasn’t going to happen. And then they got all mad because they wanted to get
that extra money.”
An immediate punchline from Diane: “That says more about American culture than
anything! That’s why Arnold Schwarzenegger is the governor of California.”
More laughter.
Gus then started describing his intent with the picture, “It’s not a
result-oriented movie where you’re trying to get the audience to see the
sacrifice of one character or another.”
He elaborated, “I hope the film can act as a meditative thinking kaleidoscope
that they can look into, and it can help. Just go over thoughts they’ve already
been carrying around with them. Or new thoughts that they’re putting together as
they’re watching the film.”
“In your mind, what it’s hopefully doing, it’s thinking about the subject. And
hopefully the film is strong enough to keep you there thinking about it. The
other thing that can happen is you start going through like your to-do list
tomorrow. If that’s happening, then the film’s not really working for that
person. But hopefully there’s so much space that the thought you’re having
within that space is going to definitely be different than the thought the
person next to you is having.”
As a final thought, Diane put forward, "Can I just say, being a more ordinary
person than Gus, I would say…that I just wish this is a movie that can be shown
in high schools throughout the United States of America. Across this whole
country. And that parents and kids can see this movie. And that they’re forced
to have a focus group afterward. Because I think it’s all about discussing. I
think if something like this could happen it would bring about more of a
discussion. That would be my fondest wish for the movie.”
Copyright 2003 Jamie Stuart
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